Just saw We were soldiers

nimec
Posts: 1074
Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:29 pm

Post by nimec »


I will never view We Were Soldiers as anything more than an action flick. Now, that's not to say it was a bad action flick. It was god damn excellent IMO. Especially the last fight scene with the enemies getting blown apart in utter silence. Man, that was pretty fucking cool.

 


But it didn't truly capture the essence of war, if you get what I'm saying. When somebody got killed, I said "Well, that sucks", but I never got more involved than that. Saving Private Ryan and Band Of Brothers had me gripping my seat and screaming at the TV. I yelled at the people on the screen, telling them to "Get the hell out of there" and "Shoot the motherfucker". I damn near cried when somebody met their demise or was taken out because of a serious injury. I felt as if I had bonded with them.


 


We Were Soldiers didn't have any of that. A small feeling of sorrow came and left in an instant. There was a lot of blood and a lot of realism (Well, I don't exactly recall the gooks being the ones who ran around in the bare open). This has a lot to do with the lack of character development. The same problem the Black Hawk Down movie suffered from. The movie attempts to make you feel for them by showing that a lot of these people have families and even children. Well, that's great and all. Hope he doesn't get shot, m'dear. But that's not gonna cut it. You only really get to know a lot of these people right when they drop in from the choppers, and from then on the focus is more on bullets and explosions rather than the soldiers.


 


There was also no event that took place which emphasized on pain and sadness. The medic's death in Saving Private Ryan is a good example of this. After experiencing war with him for such a long time, you've started to like this guy. And your fondness of him isn't apparent until you see his buddies try and save him as blood constantly leaks out of the holes in his body. Things get worse and worse until they all agree that they have to put him down themselves to spare him the pain and misery. By that time, you feel like a load of crap.


Where was that in We Were Soldiers? I mean, there was that one dude who literally had his skin fried off because of napalm, but as gruesome as it was, the effect wasn't the same. Again, the lack of character development.


 


Hmm... Maybe I'm being a wee bit too critical, so I'll just finish this.


 


I enjoyed the movie a lot. I'd gladly see it again. But it's not the war movie I'd see if I wanted a deeper experience.



That is EXACTLY how I feel. ?They could of easily made the movie longer and better had they developed the characters more. ?For example the guy who dies that has the new born child at home, had they focused in on him during basic training you would of felt sad when he died knowing he left his family behind. ?They could of easily added more to the basic training in which all the guys sit around and talk about stuff just so you become more friendly with the characters. ?I have to say the end of Saving Private Ryan when tom hanks goes "earn this", it just gave me goosebumps and made me want to cry. ?Ever since that movie I have always had extreme respect for our veterns and all the people who have died for us just so we could be free.  When a movie does that you, you know it was a good movie.


Kindred
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Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:11 am

Post by Kindred »

Man if thats how you felt it about... shit I hope you didnt waste your time with Windtalkers then.

nimec
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Joined: Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:29 pm

Post by nimec »


Man if thats how you felt it about... shit I hope you didnt waste your time with Windtalkers then.

didnt watch it.  did that movie really blow?


Blimpet
Posts: 666
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 3:29 pm

Post by Blimpet »


Man if thats how you felt it about... shit I hope you didnt waste your time with Windtalkers then.

I heard about that movie once and nothing else. I sort of skipped it because the war theme has become way overused recently.


otto
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Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:32 pm

Post by otto »

windtalkers was ok, nothing spectacular though

dotti
Posts: 77
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Post by dotti »


Maybe I'm being a wee bit too critical

Don't worry about it, it's a good thing to have high standards. I have very high standards for movies (which is why I haven't been to a theater in years :P) and for video games (which is why I don't play console games).


coma
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2001 1:39 am

Post by coma »



pity they sacrificed alot of the historical accuracy for the whole omg americans so brave and fearless flag waving stuff which plagues most hollywood war films (windtalkers, SPR etc)


 


We Were Soldiers Once . . . But Hollywood Isn?t Sure in Which War

 


by Maurice Isserman, Professor of History, Hamilton College


 


In March 2002, Paramount Pictures released the film We Were Soldiers Once. Based on the best-selling book, We Were Soldiers Once . . . And Young, the film tells the story of the first battle of the Vietnam War from the perspective of two participants, a U.S. commander and a reporter. The film opened to somewhat mixed reviews, praised for its ?patriotism? and criticized for its sentimentality. But as Maurice Isserman, William R. Kenan, Jr. Professor of History at Hamilton College, and co-author of America Divided: The Civil War of the 1960s, writes, the film deviates from historical events at several critical junctures. Isserman explores the ways in which the film ignores several important aspects of the story and invents others to fit into a Hollywood tradition of war films.


 


I recently went to see a showing of the just-released Vietnam War epic, We Were Soldiers. The film, starring action hero Mel Gibson, and directed and written by ?Pearl Harbor? screenwriter Randall Wallace, tells the story of the battle of the Ia Drang Valley, the first significant encounter between American and North Vietnamese soldiers in the Vietnam War. In 48 hours of nearly continuous combat in mid-November 1965 in a rugged border region of South Vietnam, a few hundred Americans managed to hold off an assault by several thousand North Vietnamese. The movie is based on the excellent 1992 memoir/history We Were Soldiers Once and Young, co-authored by retired General Harold G. Moore, who as an army colonel in 1965 commanded the first battalion of the Seventh Cavalry (helicopter-borne or ?airmobile? troops) in the battle; his co-author, Joe Galloway, witnessed the bloodshed in the Ia Drang Valley as a young reporter.


 


For much of the film, the action on screen adheres closely to actual events. The Americans, engaged in a reconnaissance in force that inadvertently stumbled upon a North Vietnamese base camp, defended a helicopter-landing zone about the size of a football field. The fighting was at close quarters, and it was only the determined resistance of the air cavalry troopers, combined with the superior firepower they were able to bring to bear on their attackers, that prevented their small defensive perimeter from being over-run. Director Wallace has said that his motive in making ?We Were Soldiers? was to ?help heal the wounds? left by the Vietnam War. The courage of the soldiers who fought in the Ia Drang Valley, he declared, would ?affirm what?s noble and lasting in the human spirit.? That is certainly a worthwhile aspiration. Unfortunately, the movie Wallace wound up making turns out to be less about the particularities of the Vietnam War than it is about some idealized, abstracted, and ultimately cynically manipulative fantasy of generic American heroism under fire.


 


For if the Seventh Cavalry?s courage did not falter in fighting the original battle of the Ia Drang Valley, the filmmakers' courage certainly did in retelling that story. In the film?s climactic moment, the early morning of the third day of battle, Colonel Moore?s men are exhausted, outnumbered and running out of ammunition. It?s all too clear that one more determined enemy attack would crack the line. But Colonel Moore/Mel Gibson saves his men and wins the day by ordering the troopers to fix bayonets and charge into the teeth of the coming North Vietnamese assault. As the Americans swept aside their foes and charged to victory and glory, I could feel the elation in the theater.


 


What kept me from sharing the elation was the knowledge that the events on the screen suddenly had no bearing on the actual historical events they pretended to depict. Automatic weapons and hand grenades rendered massed bayonet assaults in the 20th century about as anachronistic as cavalry charges. The last recorded bayonet assault by American soldiers took place in the Korean War?and even then it was considered a wildly outmoded tactic. And, as anyone who has read Colonel Moore and Joe Galloway?s book knows, they make no claim that any such thing took place.


 


What historical movies are often about is not so much history as other movies. Throughout We Were Soldiers I kept being reminded of the 1993 Turner Entertainment film ?Gettysburg.? Actor Sam Elliott, who plays a tough and gravelly voiced master sergeant in ?We Were Soldiers,? had played a tough and gravelly voiced cavalry officer in the earlier film. As a casting choice, Elliot?s presence works at a subconscious level, and probably intentionally, to link the two films and the battles they depict in the audience?s mind. And, it so happens, the emotional and dramatic center of Turner?s movie about the events at Gettysburg, is the bayonet charge led by Union Colonel Joshua Chamberlain that turned back the Confederate assault on Little Round Top on July 2, 1863.


 


But the Ia Drang Valley was not Little Round Top. Colonel Chamberlain?s order to fix bayonets is a legendary moment in American military history, but 102 years later Colonel Moore wisely did not follow Chamberlain?s example. Instead, his soldiers did what they were trained to do, which was to hug the terrain and rely upon massed firepower to turn back the enemy. In the Ia Drang battle, the North Vietnamese broke off the assault of their own choice. That was the almost invariable pattern in military engagements that followed in the Vietnam War; the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong chose when, where, and how long to fight. But the filmmakers, finding that historical truth inconvenient, dramatically unsatisfying and insufficiently inspirational, fabricated a new ending.


 


Does any of this matter? It does, if we want to understand why the Vietnam War turned out as it did. The American commander in South Vietnam, General William Westmoreland, chose to call the encounter in the Ia Drang Valley a great victory. The Americans had indeed racked up an impressive ?kill ratio.? While the Seventh Cavalry lost 78 men killed, they probably inflicted ten times as many casualties on the enemy. But what the film fails to mention is that the North Vietnamese, having broken off the assault on Colonel Moore?s unit, turned around the next day and ambushed a relief column from the second battalion, Seventh Cavalry, killing an additional 155 Americans. It was the ability of the Vietnamese Communists to sustain heavy casualties time and time again, and then return to the attack, that in the end proved far more important in determining the outcome of the war than any supposedly favorable ?kill ratio??or even the undoubted courage displayed by individual American soldiers.


 


The filmmakers wanted We Were Soldiers to convey the gritty realities of combat in the Vietnam War. But they also wanted to make a commercially viable film. To achieve the latter, they apparently decided to fudge their commitment to the former. Perhaps they felt that audiences needed a rousing scene of Mel Gibson leaping up and charging into the enemy?s massed ranks to feel that real heroism was on display. If so, I think they underestimated their audience?s intelligence?not the first time that Hollywood has committed that particular sin. If We Were Soldiers was intended to heal some real historical wounds, it is altogether unfortunate that the filmmakers chose to do so by indulging in unreal historical fantasy.


 


Source: Reprinted from History News Network, ?Culture Watch? (3/18/02). This piece originally appeared in the Utica Observer-Dispatch. Reprinted with Permission.



Blimpet
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Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2002 3:29 pm

Post by Blimpet »


Does any of this matter? It does, if we want to understand why the Vietnam War turned out as it did. The American commander in South Vietnam, General William Westmoreland, chose to call the encounter in the Ia Drang Valley a great victory. The Americans had indeed racked up an impressive ?kill ratio.? While the Seventh Cavalry lost 78 men killed, they probably inflicted ten times as many casualties on the enemy. But what the film fails to mention is that the North Vietnamese, having broken off the assault on Colonel Moore?s unit, turned around the next day and ambushed a relief column from the second battalion, Seventh Cavalry, killing an additional 155 Americans. It was the ability of the Vietnamese Communists to sustain heavy casualties time and time again, and then return to the attack, that in the end proved far more important in determining the outcome of the war than any supposedly favorable ?kill ratio??or even the undoubted courage displayed by individual American soldiers.

Like they didn't show the bigger picture, right? That's another thing that ticked me off.


 


Pearl Harbor did that as well. Showed off the Americans as brave, noble and fair. But they seemed to conveniently forget that while the Japanese attacked primarily military targets, we returned the favor by bombing the shit out of over 100,000 civilians. Not to mention another 200,000 eventually died from radiation and injuries.


 


GJ Hollywood. You fucking suck.


Kindred
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Post by Kindred »

Pearl Harbor was also historically inaccurate due to its main plot being a love story and not a war movie.

dotti
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Post by dotti »

Pearl Harbor was the lamest excuse for a movie ever. I got it for Christmas last year and cried.

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